Saturday, December 19, 2009

John Judge at JFK Plaque AU

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John Judge at JFK Memorial Plaque at American University June 10

From a talk by John Judge

"The real government are the people that are doing the killing;...they hire...the suits."

Many thanks to Linda Minor for calling attention to this and for underlining the highlights and providing appropriate links.

[The following is a transcript of a talk given by John Judge at a one-day conference entitled The Fourth Reich in America. A transcript of the entire conference, `The Fourth Reich in America,' is available from Flatland Books, P.O. Box 2420, Fort Bragg, CA 95437.]

BRETT McCABE: I would like to introduce now, a man who is very well known as an independent investigator and author. He's worked for 20 years to expose U.S. government involvement in mind control and murder. John Judge has also investigated the history of Fascism and political assassination and cover-up from Nazi Germany to John F Kennedy to Jonestown, Guyana. He works to expose US plans for concentration camps and genocide, here and abroad. He has had articles published in Critique, Utne Reader, Madness Network News, and Overthrow, and has spoken on these topics on radio, television, and in public forums since 1968. So, without wasting any more time, I introduce to you, John Judge.

JOHN JUDGE: Thank you. I started this work, really, in a sense, when I started to visit the Pentagon library. My parents, my mother and father, and my aunt who I lived with, worked as civilian employees in the Pentagon, and they used to take me in when I was a kid. And by the 6th grade, I had a 12th grade reading level, because I went to this private school, where they kind of pushed us. So they would drop me off in the library for the day, and I used to go through the stuff in there, because I was, you know, 10-11 years old, nobody seemed to care much what I was looking at. And I found it pretty interesting.

And one of the things I figured out back then, because I was interested in UFOs, was that they were really government spy craft, and not extraterrestrial craft from some other place. And for those of you who wanted them to be extraterrestrial, maybe a few of them were. But most of them were a Nazi secret weapon that was developed in the aerospace caves outside of Berlin, and seen by GIs when they came in, along with the jet engines. And it was a technology that was kept secret. Like William S Burroughs says, `If this was the Middle Ages, and Magellen was an American, and we sailed around the planet and found out it was round instead of flat, we wouldn't tell anybody so we could attack from the rear.'

So, I really began the research and the work there. And I like to research, I like to read. And I would go to these cocktail parties in my neighborhood around Christmas time, and the guy across the street sold all the weapons to Howard Hughes, and the next door neighbor was CIA, and two doors down was NASA, and those were my neighbors in Falls Church, VA when I grew up, and they would get a little stewed, and they'd talk about business.

And I thought it was all pretty strange, but I didn't have any reason to question that there was a secret government, because I lived with that secret government. And you get Bill Moyers now, and he tells you, `Well, there's a legitimate government, but from time to time, to do a certain job, they hire a rather unseemly crew, and sometimes they get a little out of control and make trouble.'

I'd suggest it's the other way around:

that the real government are the people that are doing the killing, and that they hire the people in the three piece suits to stand up and make you think you've got a democracy in front of you.

Don't you think that's what it is?

See, because the real government kills people, and that's part of how it stays in power. Now, if you go back to the period at the end of the Weimar Republic, in the late `20s and the early `30s, before Hitler rose to power, you'll find a pattern of political assassinations.

It's depicted, interestingly, in Ingmar Bergman's probably least distributed film, The Serpent's Egg. And, the people that begin to die are the labor leaders, the political activists, the musicians. The people who might have an effective public voice, and might stand against the Fascism, begin to die in large numbers. And the German police admitted that these were political assassinations. But they said they couldn't solve them. They couldn't make the historical link to what was happening, or they could but were paid not to, like many of the investigations that we have now in this country: They couldn't solve those murders.

They couldn't hook them to the most obvious suspects, which were the members of the Freikorps from World War I: the trained and paid assassins from that period, who were helping to pave the way for Hitler, and for the end of the political opposition there. And there was plenty of it. I mean there was quite a bit of socialist/communist organizing in that period. Marx's vision of the world was that the first countries to make the change would be these industrialized countries, like Germany, and so most of the people that were continuing the Bolshevik revolution in those years move foreward with that.

The idea of the political assassinations and their origins really go back to 1918. Not that no one was killed earlier; I certainly don't suggest that. But in terms of what we're dealing with in the current period, most of this is a reaction to that revolution, to that change of power there in Russia, and in some of the other countries, in that period of time, in the early 1900s.

And in response to that there were monarchists, there were industrialists, there were people that owned a tremendous amount of wealth, both here in the United States and in the industrialized countries in Europe, who had a vested interest in reversing that. Just as Reagan seems so focused on changing the situation in Nicaragua, there were people then who had very definite reasons not to want that kind of social change (that would redistribute wealth, or privilege, or power, to the extent that it did, or was able to) to happen where they were. They wanted to maintain their privileges.

And they had societies, they had groups that they formed. One of them was the Solidarists, made up of a link between the emerging Fascists and the neo-Nazis. Another core of reactionaries existed within the Vatican and the Roman Catholic Church: Opus Dei, `The Work of God,' was newly emerging on that scale. And then another group that had been known as the Knights Hospitaliers, that were the military arm of the Church during the Crusades, who became the Knights of Malta. And these were lay aristocracies within the Church. People that still believed that there shouldn't have been a Counter-Reformation, that thought that the Inquisition should have continued. People that used flagellation and hair shirts for prayer. People sort of like the Christian Right that we talked about earlier today, with a few more excesses, and a lot more money.

And, it was in the interests of these people to have stories about visions of the Virgin Mary coming, to Fatima, in the early 1900s and telling them that God was against communism, so that the Church would be against communism, and take up that struggle.

Elements of the state, and elements of the rich, and the monarchies that still existed, formed a bond of interest. And, in large part, one of the motivating people who went around and collected their monies and their energies, in order to reverse the revolutionary change in Russia, was Herbert Hoover, who spent actually more time in Europe than he did in the United States. He was also later responsible for the formation of the ideas that led to the National Security Council and the National Security State.

And part of what happened was that the Romanoff treasury, which was stolen and secreted out of the country, was then turned around along with money collected by Hoover and these monarchists and others to finance the rearmament of Germany, secretly, from 1918 to 1932. And it's that rearmament that then gave them the impetus to set up the drive to essentially get back the Soviet Union. And only because that drive was defeated at tremendous human cost - about 20 million lives in Russia and those countries, some of the worst killing went on there, and the civilians also, but tremendous cost - they were militarily stopped in 1943.

And, at that point, a different position was taken by some of the Allied countries. There were divisions within the class as to how much money should have been expended on these Fascists. There were others there who supported them, but it was time to regroup. It was time to back off a little, to try to get what they had together. The resources were more or less expended in the effort to set up a permanent war economy, which Charles Wilson from General Electric talked about. And to go into what they called the `Cold War,' or `low intensity warfare,' and genocide against Third World people, while they continued to build the empire and maintain the hegemony. And to re-establish the Fourth Reich, the Fascism, not only here in the United States but throughout the world.

And part of that involved moving those Nazis all over the world. Moving those Fascists. And not all the Germans were Fascists, and not all the Fascists were German. There were Japanese Fascists, if you remember. Some of them seem to be still in control today. There was a kind of veiled threat, recently, from the Prime Minister of Japan, that the forces that operated in World War II hadn't forgotten what the US did to them; and that they were ready to rise back up if we didn't stop messing around on these trade issues for the international exchange. So the threat of them, you know, is still there. We talk a lot about Nuremberg, but much less about the Japanese war crime trials.

And it's known now, for instance, that when MacArthur's group went in, they found evidence of the POWs being experimented on with chemical and biological weapons by the Japanese. That they let all the scientists that did those war crimes off the hook, in exchange for the information that they could give them about how the weapons worked. So that, to them, was a fair trade.

Many of those scientists, many of the munitions and aerospace experts, many of the spies, (about 300 of them, in fact, under General Reinhard Gehlen, who had headed up Hitler's intelligence network for the east and the Soviet Union) were brought, from 1943 up until even more recently in the present day, into the United States and into other countries around the world, South Africa included. There's quite a bit of collaboration between the South African government and World War II Fascists and Nazis. But the Fascism was an indigenous problem in many, many countries. It didn't just exist in Nazi Germany. There were groups of Fascists that the Nazis were able to use in many countries as collaborationist governments.

And the real hidden history of World War II was, in fact, the defeat in many places of those forces by more progressive elements. By people who were, out of reasons of patriotism, or out of a more progressive political philosophy, bound and determined to take back some freedom. And that's a history that hasn't had as much play as the standard version of the Allied powers: these empires getting together to defeat these things, the actual struggles of the resistance to Fascism in the different countries and what role that played.

Assassination was always a tool for them; not only the mass death, but the individual death of the people that could make a difference, of the politicians that might make a change, of the people that stood in the way. And they perfected those techniques, and those techniques were brought here and used in the United States. So that when Mae Brussell did her work with the Warren Commission, and I spent several years reading the volumes and going into depth (and I went through about 300 cubic feet of material in the Archives). We found those people in the Commission Record. In key places. And I'll just talk to you about a few of them, so you can get a sense of who these people are that I'm talking about, and how they would play in.

One important one is an American, in fact, an American Fascist by the name of John J. McCloy. McCloy was a Rockefeller banking lawyer. I saw Marcel Ophuls who did some of the films on the Nuremburg situation, The Sorrow and the Pity, and Memory of Justice, at a public talk. And someone came up and asked him about McCloy, `Is he connected to the internationals?' And Ophuls said, `It would be more accurate to say the internationals are connected to him.'

There was a very good article some years ago in Harpers about him, `Minister without Portfolio,' that began to go into his background, all the way back to the 1920s when he was sent over to Germany to check about World War I sabotage activities, and ended up friends with some of Hitler's early cronies, and met Hitler, and stayed in that area for some time. He was connected to Sullivan and Cromwell, a Rockefeller banking firm that kept its German investments going even after the mass deaths of the Jews started in Germany. They had investments there that they didn't want to back off from.

And McCloy eventually got into a position in the government where he was the Under-Secretary of War. Somebody pointed out to me earlier that 1947-1948 is also when we changed from `Secretary of War,' to `Secretary of Defense.' And just that little word change is enough propaganda to make clear what's happening.

John J. McCloy, among other things during the period when he was Under-Secretary of War, was responsible, along with Earl Warren and a fellow named S Dillon Reed, [?] for the set-up of the Japanese concentration camps in the United States and the internment of Japanese, not German or white peoples, but Japanese people here. A lot of them lived out here in California, and you may know some of the history of the different concentration camps that were out here. People lost their property and their money. McCloy still speaks openly against any reparations for those people, and believes it was proper that he had them locked up and treated the way that they were during the war.

And it's interesting also that he worked on that with Earl Warren, who later shows up along with McCloy on the Warren Commission, to study the investigation of John Kennedy's death. He's one of the main members of the seven member Committee that helped to cover up the death of John F Kennedy.

John J McCloy also, in his position in the government, blocked efforts by the Jewish community here in America to have something done about the Nazi concentration camps. We knew they were there, we knew where they were. The Jews wanted the camps bombed, or they wanted the railroads going to the camps bombed, something, to stop the progress of the machinery of death in the Jewish community there. And his response at the time was that it would lead to `reparations against the Jews.' One has to wonder what they could have been. But he refused to go along with those plans.

And then after the war, when we came in militarily, we set up a fellow named General Lucius Clay, who also cut deals with many of these top Nazi elements. And then Lucius Clay's military occupation government was replaced by a transitional, but civil, government of the Allied powers that would then lead eventually into the earliest postwar German government. And who oversaw that transition? McCloy, as the High Commissioner of Germany. In that position he reversed some of the few convictions that happened at the Nuremberg trials. Only eight war criminals were sentenced to death for all the destruction that was done in that war. Only eight. Some were given prison sentences and almost all of those were out within a few years, in large part because of McCloy's intervention.

Of course, the trials were also undermined. One of the key people that undermined evidence and lost witnesses in that trial, working with the US Army, was later to go on into the International (Red) Cross, International Rescue Division. And that was one of a number of agencies; the Vatican also had a line for this, that provided false identification to the Nazi war criminals to help them move internationally. And that International Rescue Committee is still dominated by CIA and right wing elements. But at that time they were providing the `Glockenspiel,' the false identity cards. And then this fellow who moved into that position came to Texas. He was with a CIA front, a foundation called M Anderson, for many, many years. He was the special liaison between the Texas police investigation and the Warren Commission investigation of John Kennedy's death. And in that capacity he blocked any effective local study of the death, or local news from getting to the Warren Commission.

And there were a number of years when he was with Anderson. We don't hear of him. And then he reappears as the `most trusted man in America,' according to the press during the Watergate fiasco, in order to pardon Nixon. His name is Leon Jaworski.

{Jaworski mentioned in Warren Commission testimony by H. Louis Nichols at
Nichols is mentioned in a Third Decade article by Timothy Cwiek:}

OK. So these people move throughout the history. So I'm trying to give you some feel, or some examples, of how these people move. McCloy pardons all these key Nazis. He pardons Krupp. He pardons Dorhnberger. And these other top people are off the hook because of his intervention. And then, not only do they come here, but he continues to function right up to the current day. I mean Reagan, at the time he went to Bitburg, had a White House ceremony for some of them. The German government came and gave these awards to John J. McCloy for his excellent work there in the period when we were supposed to be de-Nazifying Germany. And in fact, we were leading to the Nazification of the world, including America.

Another example would be that scientist I just mentioned, Walter Dorhnberger. He was a General, and he was responsible, essentially, for helping Werhner von Braun and the rocket program get whatever it wanted during the war. He was also responsible for being part of the administration of the Dora concentration camp, where Jews and other slave labor were worked to death building, at a tremendous pace, these V1 and V2 rockets that were being used against the civilian population in England. And there were heinous examples, besides the level of the labor and the forced labor, of public hangings and other types of war criminality there at Dora. And all these people nowadays either aren't asked ... I mean, I think they've got one sentence in one piece of footage of Werhner von Braun, our fabulous rocket scientist, talking about Dora, saying some little piece about the conditions in the mines, you know, ` ... weren't that bad.'

The fact is, they were there. They were in an administrative capacity. But because after the war we wanted their expertise, we brought over a thousand of these scientists and their families. They were down in Huntsville, Alabama. I don't know if you've ever been there. The Chamber of Commerce is named after Werhner von Braun. It has big pictures of all these Nazis and their families with their hands up, taking their oath of American citizenship. And they're proud of the Nazis they brought in. I guess to get 2 on the moon it's worth 30 million dead, huh?

One of them built the Saturn 5 rocket, and only just recently got chased out of the country, much to the chagrin of Lyndon LaRouche and his crew who are fighting to get him back in. That's Walter Rudolph, who helped to get us to the moon. And without them, these Nazis, we wouldn't have done it. Of course they say they weren't `ardent' Nazis, whatever that means. They weren't involved in the war crimes. But they were there, they were in the position to do something, to speak out. And when asked they say, `Well if I'd spoken out, I would have been in the camps with the Jews myself. So what could I have done?'

And Dorhnberger was actually scheduled for indictment. The British prosecutor, Shawcross, said that he ought to hang. He was suspected of having worked, not only at Dora, but with the `Butcher' at Auschwitz, at the Auschwitz concentration camp. And instead, when Werhner von Braun got here to the United States, he said that he wouldn't do any work on our rockets unless we saved his mentor, his old friend, Walter Dorhnberger. So McCloy and Lucius Clay intervened on his behalf and he was brought directly to the United States. And first, he got a job in Huntsville, I think at Mussel Shoals, with NASA for a little bit. And then he got into a position that he kept for many, many years, where he headed up the helicopter systems division at Bell Aircraft in the Dallas/Houston area.

And it was in that position that he hired, during the 1950s and `60s, a top-ranking military intelligence agent by the name of Michael Paine. Michael Paine had a wife, Ruth Paine, and the two of them were very tight with the White Russian Solidarist community that lived in Dallas, many of these White Russians. And I say the history of these Nazis dates back to the time of the [Bolshevik] revolution. They're disaffected. Many of them worked with the CIA and other spy agencies, and Paine's family had connections with them. They went to a White Russian Orthodox church there, in Dallas, that was built with monies from the Cummins Catherwood Fund from Philadelphia. One of the blue-line families out in Philadelphia, Cummins Catherwood also funded the Cuban Aid Relief for the Bay of Pigs survivors, who were intimately involved in the assassination.

{Cummins Catherwood family and foundation has been researched by Bill Kelly. See his blog at}

It was at that church that meetings happened, in the Christmas of the early `60s, between the Paines and the Oswalds. And it was the Paines that housed Marina Oswald, out in Irving, Texas. It was the Paines, along with Marina, who were some of the few people to testify to the idea that Oswald owned a rifle. It was Ruth Paine that got Oswald the job at the Book Depository, in October, and placed him, in part, as the patsy there. It was her friend, Roy Truly, who lied to the police, and said that they had taken a roll call and that Oswald was the only one missing from the building at the time they came in to find the so-called assassin. Even though everybody else looked in a different direction to where the noise had come from, up on the Grassy Knoll, the police ran to where they were supposed to, to the School Book Depository.

So when you scratch the surface of how they set it up, who told the lies, who engineered the `patsying' of Oswald, you find these people with the connections to the International Fascists.

Werhner von Braun, knowing that the Russians, the Soviet troops, were going to come into Berlin, packed up shop at Dora, where he was building the rockets. He moved into Switzerland, leaving a trail for US Intelligence, that had contacted him and other scientists months before in something called Operation Overcast. When he got up into that area, General Thurston, who was in charge of the military takeover for that sector, followed through with the arrangements to have him and several other scientists arrested and brought to the United States.

The person who actually effected the arrests, the physical arrests, of Werhner von Braun and the rocket scientists, the Paper Clip boys (they called it Project Paper Clip, to bring these people in) was the aide-de-camp to Thurston, a fellow named Clay Shaw. Years later, Jim Garrison attempted to indict Clay Shaw for his involvement in the assassination of John F Kennedy. And Clay Shaw, among other things, was on the board of directors of a firm called Permindex, which had offices at that time out of Canada. Where they were doing training, along with British Intelligence, of assassins all during World War II. It was work that involved, among other people, Ian Fleming. And in fact, Ian Fleming's character, James Bond, is a real person that lives in Philadelphia and is very close to the Cummins Catherwood family.

So whenever I began to look, I found these little nests of snakes. They intertwine, you know, they lock together, and their histories coincide. They send each other books and messages. They know each other. They get each other jobs.

Another person with connections to the Nazis, who was very instrumental in the assassination, is George DeMohrenschildt. He came from a reactionary family in Russia. His father was a top level employee of the Nobel oil family, which was like the Rockefellers here, prior to the [Bolshevik] revolution. They lost their fortune there. His brother, Von DeMohrenschildt, was jailed by the revolution for a period. When they got loose, they went to Germany. They helped the Fascists set up. Von went into the CIA-funded Tolstoy Foundation, which was a center for the White Russians during the whole period. And George DeMohrenschildt was an oil engineer. Among other places that he worked, and was close to, was Kerr-McGee (he was tight with Mr. Kerr), where Karen Silkwood was later killed by the Industrial Security Command guards. That Defense Industrial Security Command was running Mussel Shoals and Huntsville, Alabama, when the Nazis arrived.

{It should be noted here that Russ Baker has recently linked George H.W. Bush to this nest of Nazis in his book Family of Secrets. A Texan named Kitchell from the Galveston County area--near where a blimp hangar used during WWII was located--had become an oilman in nearby Beaumont during Spindletop and relocated to the oil fields in the Oklahoma Territory, where Senator Kerr grew up. One son George Kitchell became an executive at Kerr-McGee, along with a man named Jim Savage. They became extremely close to George DeMohrenschildt. The other son, Graham Kitchell, was the FBI special agent whom George H.W. Bush telephoned on Nov. 22, 1963 from Tyler, Texas (thus, according to Russ Baker, establishing his own "alibi" outside Dallas).}

You see, it just goes over and over, back and forth. You can find the connections if you start with the evidence. If you look to see who are these people, who do they know, how are they funded? And I saw it not only there, but throughout the other assassinations. Who were the top lieutenants in Jonestown? All were tied in with the Nazi money, with the International Fascism, the training, or the movements of the Nazis themselves. I wanted you to see this before I quit. This is a documentary film made by a fellow named Bob Groden. He worked at Life magazine, in the photo department, when this film came from Dallas. This supposedly `homemade' film was made by a fellow named Abraham Zapruder, who was a bystander that `happened' to be standing near the Grassy Knoll filming the motorcade go by. And he caught, on this little piece of film, supposedly just by accident, the assassination of John F Kennedy.

The reason I'm making all these secondary comments is that we found out when Abraham Zapruder died that he's a White Russian. That he was from that same section there in Minsk, where George DeMohrenschildt and Marina's family came from. Marina's uncle was a high-ranking military officer in the NKVD, but her family was White Russian and anti-communist. And Gehlen infiltrated a lot of the KGB and Soviet military and intelligence structures during the war, and left agents in place. There's reason to believe that a number of people that were involved with Oswald, even in the Soviet Union, also tie to this International Fascism; and not to the idea that Oswald was some kind of a KGB agent. He was a Naval Intelligence operative. He had crypto clearance. He travelled around with the U-2. And he was a U.S. spy. He was sent to defect falsely to the Soviet Union.

He [Oswald] got out of the Marines (you try this) because a box fell on his mother's nose nine months before. And the letter documenting her nasopharyngitis (which means it was swollen) condition arrived 4 days after the discharge. But the number from the discharge sheet appeared a month before, on his passport out of the country, you see. So he was set to go.

And he was sent by the military, because there were no civilian flights when he went from Helsinki into the area. Nothing but a military flight could have explained his passage.

Also, when he was ready to come home, he'd met Marina four times in his life, and he married her the fourth time he met her. And then he took her out of the country. But of course they could get her to lie. Because she still didn't have her citizenship in `63, they could have sent her right back. And so what they had her do was say that she didn't speak English, and she spoke Russian. And they brought in George Bouhe and Raigorodsky and these other CIA translators. And in case the translator didn't translate the Russian just right, all the people stenotyping at that point, taking minutes, were on maternity leave from the CIA.

{Raigorodsky also shows up in FBI files in in 1945, shortly after he was divorced by his wife Ethel McCaleb Raigorodsky.
Ethel's father was in banking and had headed the bank in Cleveland that controlled labor pension funds, known as the Brotherhood of Locomotive Engineers, which tied in with Jay Lovestone and Irving Brown's secret funds. McCaleb was also president of the Dallas Federal Reserve Bank, appointed by Woodrow Wilson.}

And then, of course, all the lawyers asking the questions were chosen in a meeting, the minutes of which are still buried in the National Archives as `National Security' matter until 2039. But I'm sure they weren't chosen just because they were under A's or B's in the phone book.

It's like when James McCord, a 21 year top man, operative with the CIA, gets caught at Watergate because he puts a second piece of tape on the door (that's what he calls his book, A Second Piece of Tape). Well, you know, if you go down and find that somebody's removed the tape, you've got to cheese the operation and get out of the building. He puts another piece of tape on, and when Wills comes around on the second round, he has to report it. So McCord's in there to make sure they get arrested. His guy Baldwin, across the street, doesn't warn anybody. But when McCord needs a lawyer for Watergate, he goes out and he gets this guy Bernard Fensterwald, who heads up something called the Committee to Investigate Assassinations. Which he uses the mnemonic, the CTIA. I wrote him a letter and said, `You know, in mnemonics, pronouns don't get a letter. It's really CIA, isn't it Bud?'

{I can't resist telling John Judge that the word "to" is not a pronoun but part of an infinitive phrase "to investigate".}

And then it comes out in the Watergate hearing that McCord was donating money to the CTIA. You know, he's a `conspiracy nut' too, I guess. Or else maybe the CIA was paying Fensterwald to find out what everybody knows. Sherman Skolnick challenged him, in 1972, at a meeting. He said, `You know, when a CIA guy gets sick, he goes to a CIA doctor. When he needs money, he goes to the CIA bank. When he needs a lawyer, he goes to Edward Bennett Williams, doesn't he?'

After that, Fensterwald was the lawyer for Paisley's wife, the guy who drowned in the drink, in the Potomac, and was part of the Nysenko {Nosenko?} briefing; a CIA agent. Although they say he committed suicide, he put diving weights on (if this is true), shot himself in the head, threw the gun overboard, and then leapt to his death. Skolnick says he drowned, 'cause all the water rushed in the hole in his head. {Some researchers doubt it was Paisley's body at all that was found.}

I was looking for an article this morning, about a suicide that was actually reported in the press from Baltimore: Where a guy committed suicide, get this, by hitting himself 38 times in the head with a hammer. And the police were there, demonstrating to the press how he might have done it. Thirty-eight times, what a headache. My best one came over the news about a year ago. They said the police had determined suicide in a case where the body parts were wrapped in a bag. And the bag was tied from the outside. I mean, Houdini's got nothing on this guy. So when you look at the pathology, which is what I do, and the nuts and bolts; the bullets, and what direction do they go, and where do they come from, and who shot them - just the police work - that's all you have to do. That's all you have to get. I mean, they hide it from you a little bit, but you can piece it together. Then you know, that it didn't happen the way they told you.

I mean, when you go into the evidence of the John F Kennedy assassination, you'll find that Oswald didn't own a rifle; he didn't own a pistol. He didn't fire a gun that day. There were no nitrate samples on the cheeks or on his palms. He didn't shoot a gun. He didn't kill anybody.

{To summarize:
Oswald was a false defector to the USSR. While there he met Marina, connected to the nest of White Russian nazis and married her on their fourth meeting. We know they didn't get along or even LIKE each other. But he made it possible for her to come to the U.S. and to interact with other Nazis connected to Bell Helicopter. They were overseen by other capitalists who spoke Russian, many who had aristocratic European backgrounds, whose wealth had been confiscated by the Bolsheviks who took over after 1917.}

Then you go to the witness testimony and the photographic evidence. And you find out he wasn't on the sixth floor and couldn't have gotten down the stairwell to the first or second floor to be buying a coke, when the cop stuck a gun in his stomach in the first round of interchange a few minutes after the shooting. Seven people saw him watching the motorcade go by, on the first floor, as Kennedy was being shot. And we have a photo, James Altgen's photo, of him standing in the doorway. Of course, the Warren Commission said it was somebody else. But all you have to do is compare that guy's description of his shirt to the shirt that Oswald has on there, and the one he's got on when he's arrested. It's Oswald. You can tell. I'm not a photo expert, but you can see his face, hairline, and everything else is the same. He was what he said he was: a patsy.

And then, even if you say he's up there, and shooting with this Mannlicher-Carcano, the bullets can't do the damage. And it's the same thing every time I look at it.

The Robert Kennedy case is the same. I noticed that they even use the same language when they testify. There's this phrase they use. They say, `The bullet is consistent with having been fired from the weapon.' Now that's not a ballistic term. You know, ballistics can tell you pretty much, as long as they've got the bullet relatively intact, whether it came from that specific gun. Because of the scratches on it, the rifling, and what type of bullet it is. All that `consistent with having been fired from the weapon' means is that the bullet is not too big to get through the barrel. The caliber is either equal to, or smaller than, the gun caliber of the barrel. It won't get stuck.

And the way I finally realized that that didn't mean anything was in an affidavit in the Sacco and Vanzetti trial. Where the sheriff testified `Yes' when they asked him was the bullet in the guard at Braintree consistent with Sacco's gun. And he said that it was. And then he filed an affidavit later, saying that he didn't want to be misunderstood; that he was instructed by the judge to answer just `yes' or `no' and that all he meant was that the bullet would get through the barrel. But that same phrase is in the Robert Kennedy trial transcript, it's in the Warren Commission ballistic evidence.

Just to take one more example: When Reinhard Gehlen came here, many of his 300 operatives were funnelled through a section of the Defense Department known as the Army Historical Division. Because they, especially George Patton, were busy hiring Nazis to help them write the official history of World War II. So both Nazi war criminals and Nazi historians were channeled in through this, and then fed into the beginnings of the CIA, which was formed by Gehlen and his organization. And into Radio Free America and Radio Free Europe. The engines of the National Security State and the Cold War logic were a lie.

When the Warren Commission investigators had finished their work and they went to write the Report, they didn't take any of the attorneys or any of the people that they had, essentially, already bought off to do a phony investigation. They wanted to make sure there was nothing in that Report that would go wrong. And when I went into the Archives, about 300 cubic feet of the minutes from the meetings were notes, voluminous notes, from those 5 different staff investigative teams to the Warren Commission, in relation to the final report which they had read. And the notes say, `What's the basis for this conclusion? What's the evidence for this?' Line after line. Even the liars couldn't go as far as the author of the Warren Commission Report had gone. But the report went out intact. Hale Boggs asked in one of the meetings whether they should print any of the evidence. `I guess you know,' Boggs said, `It might look a little fishy if we didn't.' `Go ahead and print it,' Dulles said. `Nobody will read it anyway.' And Boggs said, `A few of those people out there know how to read.' I doubt he meant me, but here I am.

And when you do read it, you can find it out. But the person that actually wrote the report is a fellow named Otto Winnacker. He was on TDY, transfer from the Pentagon to the Warren Commission, to do that job. He was also, historically, one of 26 official historians of the Reich who worked directly under the Reichschancellor, Adolph Hitler, and was brought here into the United States.

When Gehlen finished setting up the CIA here, he went back to Germany and helped set up the postwar German, NATO, and French Intelligence structures that rule the reactionary politics in those countries and in Europe today, and that command our constant military presence there. Forty years after the war's supposed to be over.

He was replaced in large part, at that point, by Otto von Bolshwing. Otto Albrecht von Bolshwing, who had been Adolph Eichmann's superior at the Hebrew desk for the movement of the Jews and the Final Solution and the killing and the planning. But he was never tried in Nazi Germany. He was just allowed to slip through the cracks, like many of them, and ended up here, in the United States. He helped form a corporation called TCI, with Edwin Wilson, Helena von Damm, and with other people connected to the intelligence agencies, as one of many front companies out here in California. When it went bankrupt, it sold its largest subsidiary to Albert Hakim and Richard Secord. And that subsidiary became Stanford Technology Trading Group, and Trading Group International. These were their fronts, during that time.

And the financing, if you remember, of [Oliver] North's operation, was through Credit Suisse. Well Credit Suisse was set up as a bank, in the 1940s, as the funnel and conduit for Permindex. It was the banking firm to take care of Permindex's international operations.

And just recently, when I was reading Tennessee Waltz by James Earl Ray, where he names the person in Canada that introduced him to the mysterious character Raoul, who set him up as the patsy. He says that that's a person named David Gravier. Well David Gravier is an international financier, connected to American Banking and Trust, which itself is a major subsidiary of guess who? Credit Suisse. Where did he [Ray] meet him [Raoul]? In Canada, where Permindex was located. See, so you'll find the connections going back to certain firms, certain cover.

The current world cover for the training of these assassins, I believe, is an evangelical right-wing organization known as World Vision. Among its employees at the Fort Chaffee Refugee Camp it was running for Laotian, Thai, and Vietnamese refugees was a young man named Mark David Chapman - responsible for the death of a very political musician who could have brought a million people out in response to Reagan's war efforts in a single day, named John Lennon.

Mark David Chapman had military training. He was in Beirut, interestingly enough, when military training was going on there by Wilson and Terpil. And he moved to Hawaii, worked for the large military firms. You'll remember he took a military stance at the time. The chairman of the board in those days of World Vision was none other than John Hinckley, Sr. The funding for World Vision was, primarily, during the Vietnam period, CIA directly funding it. They now still admit 5% coming through USAID, which was the cover. And they operated in all of Southeast Asia, collecting information on Laotians, Cambodians and others under the cover of this missionary work. They were in charge of the refugee camps at Sabra and Shatilla when the Fascist Phalange came in and killed the Palestinians.

They are in charge of the refugee camps, along the Honduran border, for the Central Americans, where the Contras are allowed to go in and actively recruit. They run the physical operation in the camps for the Cuban and Haitian refugees here in the United States. And it was at those camps, you remember, there were riots. Well part of what started that riots was that they brought into those camps a political education program that if you didn't attend, you didn't eat. And the people that ran that program for the Cubans were none other than Alpha-66 and Omega-7, the Cuban reactionaries left over from the Bay of Pigs invasion.

These international refugee communities they started in the `50s (I went back to their earliest populations) were really just attempts to manipulate people that were in Communist countries who were reactionary and were running from the situations or the changes in those countries. Refugee populations are expendable; they're manipulable. Part of the history of Jonestown is the history of refugees, `cause a lot of the reason they went to Matthew's Ridge is that they wanted cheap labor there.

But I found the same names cropping up, the same modus operandi, the same monies, (and I've only named a few of them), throughout not only the major assassinations (the Kennedys, Martin Luther King, the Chappaquidik incident, where Ted Kennedy was set up and Mary Jo [Kopechne] was killed, the murder of Jessica Savitch, a number of these situations I've worked on), but also many of the witnesses that died (75 strange witness deaths in John Kennedy case, 80 each, or around that, each, in both Martin Luther King and the Robert Kennedy, another 35-40 strange deaths connected with Watergate, the Second House Select Committee on Assassinations). And a lot of the people that we knew were involved in the original research started to drop dead. There's people dropping dead now, during the Contragate investigation. It's a constant pattern: the witnesses are wiped out.

And when you go into the specifics: who did they know, or where they were, who was around them, or who helped set them up, you will find, I believe, (if you do the work, and I encourage you to do it on the things that you're interested in) people that have connections to Navy Intelligence. That's the central place where these people operated from, on the command level. You'll find people otherwise involved in the US Intelligence agencies. And you'll find people either with direct ties to Nazi Germany or with connections to current Fascist International networks that grew out of that period.

But those Nazis came here. They formed our foreign policy. There's a couple of new books out. If you haven't had a chance to see them, you should get them. This is by Bower, from a British publisher. It's called The Paperclip Conspiracy, and it's about the hunt for the Nazi scientists. There's an earlier book by Clarance Lasby, Project Paperclip that's very good, but these are recent ones, with some new information.

And this very good book by Chris Simpson. All these still miss pieces, or perspective, but this is called Blowback, which is an Intelligence term for negative effects from a covert operation; America's recruitment of Nazis and its effects on the Cold War.

All these things are available. It's not impossible to get this information. I think you need to focus a little bit.

What I'm suggesting is that there's this history of the Fascism movement; that assassination has been its long-term technique for certain political purposes; and that it's time you took a look around you. Because they are killing us. They're not killing all of us. But they're killing people not just at the top government levels, but all the way down to the activists and the people who are going to try to make a difference.

Which is not to me, again, an argument not to try to make a difference. Because they can't kill us all. Or if we don't do anything, they will kill us all. So you see, it's one or the other. But to me, there's really no choice.

If you stumble across Auschwitz in the 1940s, you're either going to go home, and be a `good German' and use the soap, or you're going to speak up. You see, you're going to speak up and you're going to have the horrible fate that Walter Rudolph didn't want. You're going to become one of the excess population; one of the untermenschen, one of the expendables.

But I'd suggest that, given the reality of the economy, that most of you here in the audience are that already. My obeisance to the FBI and CIA agents here; you probably have a good paycheck still. But I would think that most of you are not in such a secure position. And this economy is not so long for the world, in terms of taking care of everybody. If you haven't looked around you on the street lately, there's a depression out there, and that's what a depression looks like.

It's interesting too that a lot of those homeless people are Vietnam veterans. About 70% of the homeless on the East coast, in fact, are veterans. Which is an aspect that's been ignored, besides the suicides, tremendous unemployment rates and long-term problems, because these wars are genocidal wars. They have a little different technology, they drop the oven out of the air instead of picking the body up and putting it in the oven, but it's still genocide.

If the little countries of the world, where we are pushing ourselves around, could get into a court and tell what we've been doing there, it would not look so different from the Nuremberg trials; in fact, I suggest to you that it's worse.

My friends say to me, `If it's Nazi Germany, who are the Jews?' Well the Jews are the Central Americans. Some of the Jews are still the Jews if they don't have enough money and prestige and aren't being used for the current time in the reactionary processes. Women. The disenfranchised. The first people that Lori [a previous speaker] mentioned that were killed: the psychiatric inmates are certainly an expendable population. The institutionalized people: the elderly, children in institutions, prisoners, and people in the military. The veterans are guinea pigs; after they get out of all that military stuff they're just used by the system further.

So there are people dying every day. And if you don't add up the deaths, you don't get the right total, you don't get the sense of what's happening.

And then they say to me, `Yeah, but we don't live in terror. We live good.' Well if you were a good German and you went along with the program and you looked the other way when they came and got the neighbors, you lived good too. They were looting the whole world like we are. We're 6 percent of the population, consuming 60 percent of its energy, 30 percent of its raw materials coming right here, into this society. All this wealth doesn't come from out of some magic well in Kansas marked `Capitalism.' It comes from tentacles of exploitation of labor and resources all over the world. And because we exploit those societies, they're in worse shape and we're in better shape.

There's enough to go around. There's no shortage. There's surplus, in fact, if it weren't being used for war; and weren't being diverted into cash crops instead of growing food, everyone could eat, everyone could live comfortably. In fact, probably on a third of the budget they spend on warfare in the world. There is a surplus; the surplus has to be manipulated in order to disappear.

But there are populations, Rand Corporation studied them. In `68 they did a study saying that half of the world population, over two billion people, had to go, in order to make it economically comfortable for the elites. They studied setting up martial law in many countries where it came to pass: the Philippines, Yemen and South Korea, Vietnam, Canada even, and eventually the United States.

How do you set up martial law here? You do it with a terrorist scenario. I'd suggest a nuclear terrorist scenario. You have Abu Nidal, who's really Oliver North in drag. They say I'm paranoid. I don't have an eight foot security fence around my house. And he's working internationally with the people that financed Nidal. It's not mano a mano, it's have him over for dinner. That fence is up for us, in case we figure out who Ollie North really is and what he did to us.

You have this so-called `terrorist,' you know, the guy with the pop gun that terrorizes you. The nuclear weapons don't terrorize you, the state control doesn't terrorize you, the massive death and genocide that goes on in your name doesn't terrorize you. You don't know who the enemy is, and so you're afraid of a guy on an airplane with a pistol. But that's a terrorist, and you're shaking in your boots, and now they are going to be said to have a nuclear weapon. So, `Oh well, what can we do? We have to suspend civil liberties. We have to put people in camps. We have to do whatever is necessary in order to stop this "threat".'

So you come up with a scenario that's good enough, and then you move. And they have the plans, they know how to move, they have it down to the neighborhood level. If you buy the lie; if you don't identify who's oppressing whom and who the enemy really is. Believe me, you are not in danger of Abu Nidal, or the PLO, or whoever the Terrorist of the Month is supposed to be. Your life is not hanging on a hinge. Yeah, maybe if you travel internationally all the time you'll be on the wrong plane at the wrong moment. But I doubt most of you are jet setters.

The threat comes from someplace else. And even the people who take over the plane, in my experience, have ties to these same military intelligence networks. But they kill people. And at the same time it is possible to expose how they do it; and to break the cycle of the lies; and to catch up with it; and to understand who's assassinating whom, and how. Because the techniques work and they use them over. They're not that hard to figure out, once you understand the personnel and the pattern.

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